paizo.com - Forums / Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: Pathfinder Terminology: Is Magical Energy Called Mana? (2024)

After some research I think I have gone as far as I can with the resources at my disposal. So help would be awesome.

Okay ley lines exist in Pathfinder and lend credence to the belief that the cosmology is alive. This ley line energy is the lifestuff of the universe much like mako energy from Final Fantasy VII. I want to talk about this raw magical stuff use a precise smart sounding term like an arcanist loremaster would use. Magical energy feels imprecise and sloppy.

Now mana is a word in Pathfinder. Specifically the Mana Wastes are called that because they are overrun with magical energy from the world getting messed up in a magical war. So mana seems to be the Golarion word for magic energy. On the other hand, this magical energy is "wild" magic from beyond Golarion and comes from "beyond the Cosmos" (in a tentacle way). So it comes frustratingly close to being what I'm looking for, but also kind of isn't.

So what's your guys' judgement? Is the Lifestream of the cosmology also called mana, just mana from a different source? Or do you see mana as it's own thing describing leakage from the Cthulhuverse?

If not, what to call this Lifestream energy? Ley Juice?

MaNa

short for Magical Nargy?

Rysky wrote:

The Mana Wastes was caused by a magical war between a Nex and Geb, not from something from beyond the cosmos. As for the term “Mana” I’ve only ever seen it used to describe the Mana Wastes, so its very likely it can be used interchangeably with “Magic”.

So from my research the battle between Nex and Geb unleashed such furious magics that it damaged the cosmos causing this mana stuff to leak in from somewhere *else* (tentacle wiggle). Rituals of the ph'nglui mglw'nafh persuasion access the same sort of energy and do the same sort of cosmological damage. This can let in Very Bad Stuff--which is why genuine wizards don't dig muggles casting rituals.

As far as I'm aware, the only usage of the word "Mana" in Pathfinder is the Mana Wastes, which is composed of areas of dead and wild magic.

As far as ley lines are concerned, they're less "proof of the universe being alive" and more like magic pipes, not dissimilar to water pipes of a city except on a bigger scale and in another dimension.

Rysky wrote:

There's nothing in Lore to support... any of that but if that's what you're going for sure.

So here's where I'm getting my research so folks don't just handwave what I'm saying here.

Here's the Lore:

Cosmic Biology as the occult philosophy that the cosmos is a living entity and cite the existence of ley lines as major proof of this.

https://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Cosmic_biology

Primal (or wild magic) comes from outside the cosmos and is only seen on Golarion in the Mana Wastes where the planar fabric has ruptured.

https://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Primal_magic

Traditional mages fear ritual magic as dangerous and try to get rid of it. (Last sentence in Description)

https://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Ritual_magic

It seems to me that the term 'raw magical energy' in sources you cited is being used in two quite different ways.

1) 'unformed magical energy' this is how it is used when talking about ley lines (similar to raw sugar or raw fibers).

2) 'unbridled magical energy' this is how it is when talking about the Mana Wastes and similar things (similar to raw power).

One bit of evidence that they are talking about two different things is this sentence from ley lines:

"Most ley lines are invisible to the naked eye, with the exception of those that pass through areas with high levels of ambient energy, such as areas of wild magic or negative energy."

Or to shorten "Most ley lines are invisible to the naked eye, with the exception of those that pass through areas of wild magic"

If ley lines (described as raw magical enery) and wild magic (also described as raw) are the same thing it would be somewhat nonsensical that:

"conduits of raw magical energy are invisible unless they pass through raw magical energy"

As for the terms that are used for these things in Golarion or in any other setting, I would be surprised if there weren't many for both employed by different people (let alone different languages).

I feel like in the diagesis a lot of different magical traditions are going to have a lot of different words to describe the mechanics of magic that are described to those outside the diagesis with the rulebooks

Some of those can be "mana" but I don't think it's either a game mechanical or a universally meaningful term in the game world. I mean, people on Golarion are able to observe stuff and they're going to call it something, but people in different places are going to call it different things. There's no Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers analogue in Golarion for Magic.

Dave Justus wrote:

If ley lines (described as raw magical enery) and wild magic (also described as raw) are the same thing it would be somewhat nonsensical that:

"conduits of raw magical energy are invisible unless they pass through raw magical energy"

As for the terms that are used for these things in Golarion or in any other setting, I would be surprised if there weren't many for both employed by different people (let alone different languages).

Good insight! Yeah I'm sure wild magic and the cosmos' let line magic are two different things. The question is would the same term, mana, make sense to describe both in setting.

I like your answer--it's an archaic setting and a big world. They probably call it lots of things. Mana is probably a Nethys derived one.

I would imagine different traditions/schools/colleges of magic would call it different things. Mana could certainly be one of them.

I've been watching the new Voltron enough that I'm starting to call it Quintessence.

Zhayne wrote:

I would imagine different traditions/schools/colleges of magic would call it different things. Mana could certainly be one of them.

I've been watching the new Voltron enough that I'm starting to call it Quintessence.

Nice, but note Quintessence is soulstuff in Golarion I believe.